An Interview with Henry Morgenthau III

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  Henry Morgenthau III is the grandson of the US Ambassador to Ottoman
  Turkey at the time of the Armenian Genocide in 1915. He was visiting
  Armenia with his two sons - Dr. Henry Ben Morgenthau and Kramer
  Morgenthau - to attend a conference and ceremony co-sponsored by the
  Armenian National Institute (ANI) honouring his Grandfather.

  This interview was held following a ceremony in which an urn
  containing a handful of earth from Ambassador Morgenthau's grave in
  the United States was interred in the Genocide Memorial's Wall of
  Honour, and marked by a Memorial Plaque.

  The author would like to thank Joan Ablett of the Armenian Assembly
  and Carolyn Mugar of the Armenian National Institute for setting up
  this interview.


      *************************


An Interview with Henry Morgenthau III
23 April 1999
Yerevan, Armenia

By Onnik Krikorian


OK: Do you think that the United States is in need of more
Ambassadors like your Grandfather?

HM: I think yes. Very much so. He was a diplomat that was not
afraid to be undiplomatic. In that sense he did not hesitate to
intervene directly - legally and officially - in what can be
considered the internal affairs of a country. I think that certainly
in his time that was necessary, but diplomacy has changed a lot since
then.

At the beginning of the Century and up through the First World War and
afterwards, you did not have the kind of communications that you have
now. So the Ambassador was really the representative of his country in
the country where he was serving.  Nowadays, with all of the
technology and the transportation that is available, if a really
critical problem comes up, someone would be sent that really
represents the Government of the nation's capital - Washington,
London, Paris, wherever - to deal with the problem. The Ambassador is
then relegated to more routine problems. In those days, the Ambassador
really had to be prepared to act for his country on the spot, and my
Grandfather did that.

OK: Your Grandfather has found a very prominent place in the
hearts of Armenians everywhere, and this is your first visit to
Armenia. Have you noticed this fact, and how does it make you feel?

HM: I was tremendously moved by the outpouring of emotion and
respect for my Grandfather. I knew that he was known - particularly by
Armenians in the Diaspora, and by those descendants of Armenians that
had fled and survived.  But I was very much taken by surprise by the
people in the country - starting with the President who received us
with great generosity and warmth - that he is known, and that it does
have a meaning to people in this country. That and this first visit to
Armenia by myself and my sons has made this a very exciting and
exhilarating experience.

OK: Many generations have passed since your Grandfather's
time. Can you remember from your family life the details of the events
that he witnessed, and do they remain alive even in the lives of the
new generation of Morgenthaus?

HM: Well, I am a very ancient mariner with a lot of tales to tell.
I was born two years after the Genocide, and I knew my Grandfather
very well - I was almost thirty when he died - and I was living with
him up until the time of his death. He talked a lot about his
experience, and when I was writing the history of our family - the
book `Mostly Morgenthaus' - I spent a lot of time looking up the
materials that he had kept, and also the things that other people had
written about what was going on at that time, and what he did. He
himself was meticulous in saving everything. His papers were very well
organised, and he turned them over to the Library of Congress in
Washington. Other papers which he considered more personal were left
to my father as his executor, and which are now deposited in the
Roosevelt Library. So there was a great wealth of material, and it was
very interesting for me to learn really through the material in a way
in which I hadn't learned directly from him. However, I also learned
many lessons from him as a person.

OK: You attended a ceremony this morning at a school named in his
honour, and you went to see a new generation of Armenians. How
important do you think that recognition of the Genocide - and the
appreciation of the horrors of the Genocide - is to the new generation
of Armenians that will take this country into the 21st Century?

HM: I think the recognition of the fact of the Genocide that set
off a chain of Genocides - that are continuing to this day - is very
important. Not only for Armenians, but also for the Turks. I think
that the Turks really have every reason now to accept it as fact. The
Turks that are living today were not alive at that time, and I do not
believe in the biblical sense that the sins of the father are vested
onto the sons. I think that it would be healthy and redeeming if they
were to accept the Genocide and that the Turks should take a lesson
from the Germans who have in a very positive way - both on a
governmental level and a personal level among the German people -
found it redeeming to accept the fact that the Holocaust occurred. In
the case of Germany, of course, they invested heavily in Israel. -
there were reparations and so forth.

Turkey is a poor country and Germany is one of the richest countries
in the world, and perhaps they are afraid that formal acceptance of
the Genocide will lead to demands that they can not meet. I think that
from a moral and psychological standpoint acceptance is neccessary for
Turkey. Turkish and Armenian representatives should sit down together
and really work something out that acknowledges the events that have
set off a series of Genocide that unfortunately continues today - not
more than 200 miles from the Turkish border.


OK: I met a Turkish Human Rights Lawyer in London two years ago,
and he felt very strongly that Turkey should recognise the Armenian
Genocide because he believed that unless it did, there can never be a
respect for democracy or human rights in Turkey.

However, it is interesting for me to hear you say that Turkey may be
afraid it can not meet the figures that reparations may amount to.
Turkey manages to maintain a very large and powerful lobby in the
United States that prevents bills recognising the Armenian Genocide
from being passed in the United States Congress. President Clinton may
recognise 24 April as the day marking a series of massacres, but he
stops short at calling it Genocide. Not only that, but Turkey is still
a very powerful ally for NATO. What are your comments on these
factors?

HM: Yes. I think that's true. There is no question that Turkey has
been critically important in its use as a NATO air base, and I also
think that the relations between Turkey and Israel have also been a
factor.  Armenia is also relatively unknown. When my Grandfather came
back and started to work to develop the Near East Relief it was
interesting to note that there were no Armenians involved at all. It
was all outside help.  Now there are many Armenian-Americans who can
speak for their homeland and this is important. The kind of exchange
that has taken place during the past two days at these events is also
very important, and I think that Armenian-American institutions and
individuals are beginning to have an impact on the American
establishment. This despite the fact that Armenia is an unknown and
geopolitically unimportant country to the United States.

OK: Have you had the opportunity to leave Yerevan and travel
around the country?

HM: We have just been in Yerevan so far. We won't be able to
travel much, but we are particularly looking forward to seeing the
Tree Program, which will take us a little outside of the city.

OK: With regards to the Conference yesterday, was it a great
success, and what positive outcomes were there?

HM: It was a great success. I think that it really established
Ambassador Morgenthau as a person whose most fulfilling contribution
was his association with the Armenians, but that he can also be seen
as a person who extended his kind of philosophy beyond that. After
World War One he went to Poland to deal with the pogroms that were
continuing there - he was sent there jointly by President Wilson and
premier of Poland. Then he went on to represent the League of Nations
as the High Commissioner to repatriate Greeks who were expelled by the
Turks. The he went on to become the advocate of what turned out to be
the original two-year independent Armenia.

For myself, I learned a lot about the breadth of his concerns and
activities. So, I think yes, it was important, and I think that if the
Conference were published it will be of great interest to people in
the United States.

OK: You mentioned that a momentum is being built up among those
American-Armenians lobbying for official recognition of the
Genocide. Do you think that recognition on a global scale is very
close?

HM: I'm not really in a position to know. The one thing you said
earlier is that the Turks are spending money. That is true - the
Ataturk Professorships. One of them was set up in Princeton, which is
particularly troubling. The man - Heath Lowry - who holds that Chair
has no academic credentials at all. The only thing that he has had
published actually, is a pamphlet which is called `The story behind
the Ambassador Morgenthau story' which is an attempt to discredit
my Grandfather as a reckless journalist and a World War One
Propagandist.

So, I think that it is necessary that the Institutions that have set
up the Armenian Assembly of America need to be vigilant and active in
opening up dialogue to try to have the Genocide recognised by the end
of this century, and perhaps even dealt with.

OK: An important lesson because now we have similar things
happening all over the world. Not just in Kosovo, but Turkey is doing
exactly the same thing - and spending $8 billion a year - to its
Kurdish population.  These things perpetuate unless...

HM: And we certainly know about the Genocide in Africa.

OK: Rwanda.

HM: Yes, and throughout the world, unfortunately.

OK: The final question I would like to put is to your sons with
regards to their own personal feelings on visiting Armenia for the
first time, and their feelings towards the work of their Great
Grandfather.

HBM: Well, I never knew my Great Grandfather, but I have his name.
My name is Henry - Henry IV - although everybody calls me Ben. What I
had growing up was a lot of stories, and I knew that he had spoken out
on behalf of the Armenians, and was held in very high regard by the
Armenians for that. I always knew through interaction with Armenians
in the United States that this was an important thing, but it wasn't
until I really came here that I really understood the enormity of what
happened in 1915 - and how important it was for him to speak out.

People here have been incredibly kind to us, and have shown an
incredible hospitality. Just as an anecdote - a few hours after we
arrived in Armenia I was walking up Abovian Street, and I went into a
shop to do a little shopping. Somehow the shopkeeper figured out who I
was. I guess through the course of the transaction I let my name out
or something, or the person I was with mentioned my name. The
shopkeeper came out from behind the counter, came up to me, and gave
me a big hug, and just repeated, `Thank you, thank you, thank you.'
It was incredible.  That more than the stories - more than anything
else - being here, and having that human interaction with the Armenian
people in Armenia was very moving for me. I hope to come back many
times.

OK: You mentioned earlier that as a pediatrician you might be
interested in doing something at the school as well.

HBM:    I'm a pediatrician in San Francisco right now, and if I
come back I'd love to teach a couple of science classes or something
like that, and maybe to do some work in a clinic to continue the close
connection between the Armenian people and my family. It's a very
special bond.

KM: For me, coming here made everything come to life - old stories
that we had heard - seeing the land, meeting the people - and seeing
just how much what my Grandfather did means to the people here was
just such a moving experience.

It makes you proud of your family, and makes you think about what each
of us can do in the next generation. That spirit of looking out for
your fellow man. I'm a filmmaker and I've had different ideas about
doing different projects here, and perhaps one day that will come to
light.

OK: Do you think that one of these projects may be about the
Genocide?

BM: I don't know. I don't know if I would like to tackle such a big
subject.

OK: Thank you for the work that your Great Grandfather did, and
thank you for taking the time to continue that work by coming to
Armenia to represent your family and to see Armenia.

HM: You're welcome. Thank you.

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Onnik Krikorian is a photojournalist currently based in Yerevan.
He can be reached via his website at:
    http://www.freespeech.org/oneworld/photo/

The views expressed in this article are those of the author and
do not necessarily reflect the position of any organisation which
he may be employed or otherwise affiliated.